Fans Cross The Line

2. Ty said:

One of them threw something at Ron Artest (an Indiana player) and then, after he went into the stands, they pretty much went crazy throwing things onto the court and at the Pacer’s players an coaches. They attacked a few of the other players and pretty much made gigantic asses of themselves.

Posted on November 19, 2004 08:45 PM | #

4. SZA said:

Jack, either your an idiot, a Pistons fan or just didn’t see what I saw. Yeah, Artest is unstable but he has the right to defend himself, I’m sure you would’ve done the same thing. It seems like most people agree with Keith in that this was a fan problem and not a player problem.

Posted on November 19, 2004 09:02 PM | #

6. Jack said:

Dudes, Artest starte this. His foul on Wallace was uncalled for and then he mocked the Pistons by lounging on the scorers table.

I’ll agree that what the fans did ultimately was pretty weak, but I think much of the blame falls on that crazy Artest.

Posted on November 19, 2004 09:41 PM | #

8. Sheldon Kotyk said:

It’s interesting, I am a hockey referee and I literally kicked out of the rink about 50 fans after they started throwing snowballs at the visiting team goalie. Tonight!

Is it a full moon or something?

Posted on November 20, 2004 01:09 AM | #

10. Brandon said:

Yes, the fan(s) who threw stuff at the players were 100% out of line, and disgusting. The players, however, shouldn’t have went into the crowd. There are security and ushers, especially down courtside, who would’ve taken care of the situation. They would’ve done so without causing, more or less, a riot to erupt.

It was a plastic cup and cold liquid – if they can’t shrug that off and let security take care of the rude fan, they’ve got serious anger problems they should be dealing with.

I don’t think you can blame one group of people in this thing. The fans were wrong to throw stuff, and the players were just as wrong to go up in the stands and ‘defend’ themselves.

Posted on November 20, 2004 04:04 AM | #

12. Gordon said:

Funny how no-one has yet commented on how the player SHOULD have reacted given that he’s earning.. well a crap load more than you and me.

That’s not excusing the fans though. These people seem to think they have the right to abuse the people on the court in ways they certainly wouldn’t out in the street (well maybe they would). It was the same for the England/Spain soccer game during the week.

I’m an NBA fan in the UK, and I thought this kind of thing only went on in soccer in Europe (try an Old Firm, Rangers vs Celtic soccer game if you want to hear some serious abuse).

Bottom line: EVERYONE involved should be fined heavily. It doesn’t matter WHO started it, this isn’t playground. Grow up.

Posted on November 20, 2004 10:15 AM | #

14. George said:

How in the heck does how much a player earns matter here? I mean, he’s a basketball player. A competitior. As well, I don’t think Artest is very smart.

This was predictable people. That fan, who threw the cup, should be locked up for insiting a riot.

Sure, I don’t think it was a big deal. But if someone came into my work and threw a cup of water on me, I’d probably attack ‘em also.

I think Keith seemed more upset about what happened after all of that anyway, and I’m with him 100%. That dude who was suckerpunching everyone – those were HIS KIDS you see crying there.

Posted on November 20, 2004 11:58 AM | #

16. seth said:

I am shocked that anyone is blaming the fans for this. I’m not excusing the fan that threw the cup, but it isn’t his fault that the whole place went nuts.

It was a plastic cup and I’m not even sure the cup hit Artest (altough I only saw it from one angle). Let’s just say that it did. Let’s even say that he got hit in the head by a plastic cup. If you are on the street minding your own business and someone throws a plastic cup at your head from a distance, you are not legally allowed to chase them down and beat them up.

While legally your rights as an NBA player aren’t any less, I would argue that you except a certain amount of harassment when you play major league sports. You might even get the occasional person throwing a plastic cup at you. Your reaction should not be to jump into the crowd and beat up someone. Come on.

I’ve seen a couple games when some fan has gotten out of hand and the player gets the ref’s (or security’s) attention and has the person ejected. But to jump into the crowd?

There is no question that Artest is the one that greatly escalated this situation. He also had the power and responsibility to leave it as a simple fan being a jerk.

Posted on November 20, 2004 02:57 PM | #

18. Joel said:

I agree with Seth. I can’t see how anybody could blame the fans for this. The Pacers acted like complete jackasses and should face jailtime. If you or I reacted the way the Pacers did we’d be in jail. Period.

Posted on November 20, 2004 03:37 PM | #

20. Stefan said:

For the portion of the world that isn’t a) NBA fan or b) American, Here’s the brawl.(flash stream)

I’m not going to get mixed up in this debate, got too much arguing to do on other topics. Still, seen from the video, the throwers needs to be shafted.

Posted on November 20, 2004 04:56 PM | #

22. seth said:

First, let me make it clear that I think many people, including players and fans were wrong and deserve blame. But I believe Artest was the one who cause the situation to get really out of hand. To answer some of your points:

I do not get this at all. If Artest was a regular joe do you think people might think differently?

I don’t see how this is relevant, seeing that Artest is not a regular joe. I am positive that professional athletes in some sports (including professional bastketball) understand that part of the gig is being treated badly by fans in opposing cities. I am sure they have witnessed this ever since playing High School ball. I am not saying they should be subject to having things thrown at them with no recourse. I’m just saying that their recource cannot be to jump into the crowd and beat on the person.

I think he is a jackass, and I agree he shouldn’t have done anything but, and this is a big but, you can’t blame him for starting this.

Agreed. He should not have done anything. But if we both agree on that, I am not sure why we are discussing this further?

You can blame him for escalating it, but then again you can blame many fans for taking it to an even higher level.

Agreed. However, I do not think for one second that the fans would have acted that way if Artest had not jumped into the crowd. I think that is what set everyone off. My main point is that Artest’s actions greatly outweighed those of the fan that threw the cup. The place was not going to go nuts over the guy who threw the cup. They were reacting to Artest and what Artest did.

All I’m saying is I understand why Artest did what he did, as well as what the other players did. Do you have any idea the crap they put up with from fans night in and night out? It is bad enough listening to all the racial slurs and other disgusting things fans say to opposing player to now have this kind of thing happen.

I probably do not know. But, I do not care. This is reality. I think it is a shame, but it is what it is. They are not going to change the fans, and they can not just beat them up. So suck it up, or get out. I don’t see any other alternative.

The fan who threw that cup should be in jail right next to Artest. That is assault, plain and simple and if that fan knows anything about Artest and the NBA he knew damn well how Artest would react.

I agree that the fan was wrong, but I have no idea how much he knew about Artest, so I cannot say that he should have expected this. However, I do not remember a time when a player hurdled chairs to pummel a fan, so their is a good change he wasn’t expecting that exactly.

I’m not saying it’s right, but I think the Pacers reaction would be pretty typical for many people in their shoes. They should be punished and so should those fans.

I agree they were all wrong and should all be punished. I’ve seen fans throw crap, and a few times hit a player, but I have never seen the player jump into the crowd. So, it is hard for me to believe that this would be a “typical” reaction.

Again, I think many, many people were wrong. But I think it was Artest who should have shown restraint because of the position he is in. And it was his lack of restraint that caused the chaos.

Posted on November 20, 2004 06:48 PM | #

24. teli said:

I’ll agree with you to an extent Keith….

Just when it appeared tempers had died down, Artest was struck by a cup and beverage thrown from the stands. He jumped up and charged into the stands, throwing punches as he climbed over seats.

It was flat out wrong for a fan to throw anything at a player, but it was just as wrong for a player to leap up and start throwing punches. Violence is never an answer (yes, I know it’s hokey to say that, but it’s what I strongly believe). I believe everyone was equally out of line.

As a professional, he should have enough restraint to not hit an attendee regardless of how uncouth that attendee may be.

I know I have a heated temper, esp when it comes to sports, but I personally would not bring it to a level such as throwing things - nor would I expect a player to react in that way either.

Posted on November 21, 2004 03:32 AM | #

26. Taco John said:

Here’s what I (as Pistons fan mind you) would do:

1) Suspensions:
Ben Wallace- 10 games
Jermaine O’Neal- 15 games
Stephen Jackson- 20 games
Ron Artest- 25 games to season
Pacers Assistant who punched fan- season (Normally, since the guy he punched was on the court, I would say let him go. But the coaches are held to an even higher standard as the fans, I believe he may have also entered the stands, and Artest and O’Neal were taking care of the guy anyway. He was just looking to get a shot in.)

2) Suspend Pistons fans for one game. One Pistons home game must be played with no fans in the stands. This will hurt the Pistons financially and show why they must ensure incidents like this cannot happen and what will result if they continue: fans leaving the game. It also breaks the Pistons 35+ game sellout streak, a point of pride I believe they should no longer be able to use in marketing.

3) Fine the Pistons the amount of gate receipts and alcohol sales made during that game.

4) Ban the sale of alcohol at Pistons game until all suspensions of Pacers players who entered the stands are over. If any players are gone for the season, I would accept until the longest suspension with a set number of games is over (I would think Artest is going to be made an example of, so probably Jackson’s).

5) For the remainder of the year, 1/2 of Palace alcohol procedes should be donated to an NBA charity.

6) Once the Pistons are able to sell alcohol again, for the remainder of the season, or the next season if they are banned for the rest of this one, alcohol sales must end one quarter earlier than usual. I worked concessions once at the Palace, and as I recall it ends as soon as the clock starts for the 4th quarter. So I would end alcohol sales at the end of halftime.

7) Remove courtside seats until the NBA is satisfied that the increased security is working. Even if they are satisfied at the next game, the Pistons should lose the revenue from a couple of game to show that floor seats are both extremely valuable and extremely dangerous, and to have that revenue stream means you must control it.

8) I don’t know if the Pistons have a policy like this, but since my family is a Lions season ticket holder, we’re familiar with their policy. If any season ticket holder, or anyone they gave the tickets to (so you can’t just pass the blame if you gave your tickets to someone who would cause trouble), are ejected, you lose your season tickets. No questions asked. The Pistons should institute a similar policy. Furthermore, any fan who is charged with any crime in relation to this incident should be barred from the Palace for the remainder of the season.

9) Should the Pistons win a title in the next 5 years, they should be barred (by whomever needs to do it) from having a parade or rally. I don’t have a great reason for that, I just think it would be a good pitance, to make sure that the fans don’t forget that winning doesn’t make everything better.

As for Keith’s last comment, fans throw things onto the court at literally hundereds of sporting events every year. And incidents like this happened once every couple of decades before the Red Sox and Rangers bullpen incidents. If you’re saying “I understand why he reacted the way he did”, in this case you are condoning that behavior. If this is the way you expect people to react, why doesn’t this happen all the time? The answer is that professional athletes are not supposed to respond like that. I’d like to refer to this blog for a good list of the arsenal a player has when a fan is harassing them too much. I think it’s pretty clear from my laundry list of punishments that I find plenty of fault with the fans. But to say that this is the way you would expect people to act is ludicrous. This is supposed to be a civilized society. When someone acts uncivilized, we have ways of correcting it without stooping to his or her level. Sure, some people react like that, but if someone throws a beer in my face, it’s not proper to chase them down and pummel them. Legally it may be self-defense (to a point). But if I take it a step farther and say “The guy threw a beer at me, and now he’s a coma,” I’m just as bad as he is. The bottom line is we don’t expect people to react that way. If we do, then we might as well say part of the experience of going to a sporting event is the fear/threat/expectation that something like this will happen, and that’s not true. If we expect this type of behavior, then it’s fan vs. players, and sport at the level it is in society today cannot exist under those conditions. Prosecute the fans to the fullest extent of the law, get rid of alcohol, even contract the Pistons, but don’t tell me when I hurl anything (bottle, beer, insult) at a player, I should expect him to attack me.

Posted on November 21, 2004 10:15 AM | #

28. Keith said:

Taco John – I like your list.

To clairify, I never said this is how I expect people to react. I expect Ron Artest to act that way. And I’ve said over and over again that I don’t condone his actions.

Understanding does not equal condoning.

Please if you are going to quote me, do it right.

Posted on November 21, 2004 10:41 AM | #

30. seth said:

Keith -

I’m not excusing anyone’s actions. I think the fans and the players were both wrong.

I wasn’t saying that the players are role-models. The 11-year-old said it. I was using his comments because he understood that the players should act “professional” and let security take care of the imbecile fans.

My original point was that Artest shouldn’t have done what he did. Twice (#5,#15) you agree with me that Artest shouldn’t have done what he did.

That’s really all I was trying to say.

Posted on November 21, 2004 11:29 AM | #

32. Mo said:

I think one point that has been missed is that all of these people, except the fans, were at work, not on the street. Playing basketball is a job, just like any other. They get paid millions of dollars precisely because they have to endure the spotlight, and the adulation, and sometimes the abuse that goes with it. The bottom line in all professional sports is profit. Attacking a ‘fan’ that watches the games, buys the products that are advertised during the commercials, and has brand loyalty to the NBA (for life in most cases) is attacking a ‘customer’. And right or wrong, that will not be tolerated. It’s almost naive to debate over who was at fault.

As a pistons fan, I agree that the fans were out of line and should be punished. I also suspect that given the trash talking that goes on as part of basketball, that none of us know what Artest was saying to Wallace throughout the game. Given Ben’s recent personal tradegy, and Artest’s rep as such a “nice guy”, I really don’t believe that pushing incident was about the foul. Furthermore, Ben Wallace has never been a troublemaker on the court. Check his record.

If any of us were in an altercation with a coworker, and a customer or board member decided to jump into the melee, our punsihment for attacking the customer or board member would be termination. Somehow, I don’t think that Wallace, Artest, O’Neil or Jackson will be fired. Forgive me if I don’t feel sorry for them.

Posted on November 21, 2004 01:44 PM | #

34. Taco John said:

I am not saying it is right, but I think the Pacers reaction would be pretty typical for many people in their shoes.

I apologize for saying you condone it, but that looks a lot to me like you would expect this reaction. Also, a lot of this “the fans started it, and the players were just defending themselves/you would do the same thing” sounds like making excuses for their behavior. The fans aren’t allowed to throw something, but the players’ response can never be to retaliate, unless their life is clearly in danger (i.e. the fans is about to stab them).If that wasn’t your intention, alright, but that’s what it looks like to me.

And the suspensions were handed down:
Ben Wallace- 6 games
Jermaine O’Neal- 25 games
Stephen Jackson- 30 games
Ron Artest- Done for the season (72 games for the rest of the regular season, + playoffs). That makes it the longest suspension in NBA history for a non-drug related infraction.

As far as punishment for the Palace, there is none so far, although for the next 5-10 games, the Pistons will have playoff level security in the arena, especially in the floor area. A major security breakdown occurred because once the game was decided, as fans began exiting, the police moved out of the floor area to direct the flow of people and traffic. So at least while the increased security is in force, the police will not leave their posts until the game is over and the teams are off the floor.

And in the interest of full disclosure, I can’t say I’m unhappy that the Pacers 3 best players will be missing a combined 127 games. I’d like to say I’m above that, but unfortunetly I’m not. I won’t be sending fruit baskets to the fans though, they should still go to jail. And yes, I know I’m a bad person for thinking that.

Posted on November 21, 2004 04:36 PM | #

36. Keith said:

My guess is those suspensions won’t hold up. The players association will protest. Not that I care too much, and not that I disagree either, but I don’t see how they can suspend Artest for the season with no precedent already set.

Posted on November 21, 2004 05:48 PM | #

38. Victor said:

My guess is that it was just a little harmless fun gone horribly wrong.

“Hey Dave, ten bucks if you can land your beer on Artest’s head.”

“You’re on.”

*lobs beer*

*Artest charges stands*

“Ohh shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhiiiii-“

I don’t think there was any malicious intent. Until Ron Ron went ghetto-nasty on the poor bloke.

Just a mass display of stupidity. The fan was stupid enough to bait Artest, not the most stable of characters. And Artest took the bait and pulled the reel in with it. Both should’ve known better.

In all honesty though, it’s easy for us for pass judgement in retrospect, sitting at home, watching slow motion replays. But I can’t say for certain that I would’ve reacted more intelligently if a stranger threw something at me. I don’t like things thrown at me (and we know Ron Artest doesn’t either). Which is why I understand why Artest cracked it, but don’t condone it. I know it’s wrong, but I’m far from perfect and I probably wouldn’t have had the foresight in the heat of the moment to stop myself from making a similar mistake.

I don’t see how any of this can be pinned on Ben Wallace though. He overreacted to a hard foul and that should be that. Happens all the time. Penalise him for the shove, but not for the riot that ensued. I hope that’s the case with his suspension.

And how about that Stephen Jackson? What’s his problem? Even before Artest maxed out his tolerance meter for the night, Jackson was running around talking junk to the Pistons with fists up looking to start a fight with someone … anyone. That’s just stupid.

Gotta love the irony though. Artest asks for the month off and gets the rest of the regular season off.

Posted on November 21, 2004 09:27 PM | #

40. Bryan Buchs said:

I don’t see how anyone can condone what the players did, or place the blame on the Pistons fans. First off, they’re all at fault. But how can anyone say, with a straight face, that Artest has a right to “defend” himself? IMNAL, but I think the legal definition of Self Defense has a little something to do with “appropriate response”. Charging into the stands and attacking someone who may or may not have thrown a cup of beer at you - who is backing away, mind you - is not self defense. It’s REVENGE.

Posted on November 22, 2004 06:11 AM | #

42. Mike Wilson said:

Hi,

I’m not an NBA fan at all and while a usually give you the full-on nod to just about everything Keith, I totally disagree with some of your views on this issue. While the fans were obviously way out of line (I have watched the entire full-length video several times), the players have a responsibility to be professionals under these types of conditions. The fans had no right to toss objects at the players, but the players had an even greater responsibility to allow security to handle those issues.

My guess is those suspensions won’t hold up. The players association will protest. Not that I care too much, and not that I disagree either, but I don�’t see how they can suspend Artest for the season with no precedent already set.

You suggested earlier that these players should have the same rights as the “average Joe”; however, they should also face to the same consequences for their actions. Let’s say for a moment that you had a meeting with a client. You handed the client a written estimate for services and the client wads up the paper and tosses it against your forehead–boing!. If you jumped up and handed the guy his ass (not saying that you would, and I know you would not), would you expect to retain your employment just because you had no prior record of attacking clients or would you expect your employer to toss you out on your ass? I think the latter should be more than expected by any average Joe, but because these players are not average Joes, the will likely get a pass on the offense. These suspensions may not hold up (I have no clue), but they should not be suspensions, they should be terminations. As it’s been stated over and over again, it was a cup; not a brick, not a weapon of mass destruction, and not an injury causing or life-threatening attack and the actions of the players constitutes a complete lack of self-control and profound unprofessionalism. Franky, I would have been more suprised if the players had exercised professionalism and restraint and had allowed security to handle the out of pocket fans—the gut-shot street brawl is exactly what I would have predicted and that in itself reflects poorly of the NBA and many of its players.

Posted on November 22, 2004 06:50 AM | #

44. beerzie boy said:

Well…I am a Sacramento citizen/fan, and I have seen a lot of out of control stuff by fans at games. Some people think that the price of a ticket gives you the right to get out of control and act like an animal or a jerk. This is wrong.

That being said, some blame has to be laid at the feet of the security crew. It is a given that people get drunk and out of control, and it is there job to keep order. They failed.

By the same token – like it or not – it is the player’s job to take verbal abuse from the fans. They may not like it much (who would?) but there are plenty of other jobs where you take verbal abuse and don’t get anywhere near the compensation and approbation that a NBA player does. In short, you have to suck it up, pull it together and ignore it.

And keep in mind that this behavior is sad, but an anomoly.

Posted on November 22, 2004 08:03 AM | #

46. Ray said:

The whole lot of them should lose everything they’ve gained from professional sports. Financial, homes, cars, endorsements… the works. Pro athletes have a responsibility to set a good example… especially when wearing the uniform. In large part, that’s why their paid as well as they are.

Mo #32 said it best.
Playing basketball is a job, just like any other. They get paid millions of dollars precisely because they have to endure the spotlight, and the adulation, and sometimes the abuse that goes with it. The bottom line in all professional sports is profit. Attacking a fan that watches the games, buys the products that are advertised during the commercials, and has brand loyalty to the NBA (for life in most cases) is attacking a customer.

Also, it’s long been known allot of young people measure themselves by their favorite “Pro” athlete. If a pro athlete can’t handle the responsibility then they should be told to “get lost and get a real job”.

Ben Wallace, Jermaine O’Neal, Stephen Jackson and Ron Artest… you guys don’t deserve what you had. I hope you lose it all.

Posted on November 22, 2004 09:25 AM | #

48. Bob said:

I can’t imagine many other workplaces in America where an employee, even when doused with a drink and insulted, could physically attack the customers without being immediately fired. Most businesses would be forced by their insurance provider to fire the attacking employee or lose their coverage.

For that matter, the average citizen could expect to be arrested if they were to respond to a thrown drink and/or verbal abuse with a physical assault.

Posted on November 22, 2004 10:03 AM | #

50. Kyle said:

The hypocracy here is just killing me. The last comment said “Professional athletes have NO RIGHT to physically attack any body..PERIOD.”

Fans do?!?! WTF?

So now, if you’re professional athlete your REQUIRED to take abuse from the fans!?!?

That fan had NO RIGHT to throw anything at the player. Period. Guess what? Leagally, that’s assault brother. The courts probably won’t see it any different than Artest’s reaction.

Now if the NBA want’s to suspend or fire him. That is a whole other issue. I think it was too harsh, but it doesn’t matter what I think.

The fans in Detroit should take the lion share of the blame for the incident as a whole.

Posted on November 22, 2004 11:06 AM | #

52. Bob said:

Kyle - IANAL, but the fan who threw the cup is guilty of criminal battery, and Artest is guilty of criminal assault as well as criminal battery. Battery can be legally deemed justified only to prevent battery or worse, but never to retaliate or punish, and also must not proportionally exceed the threat. So Artest has no “self-defense” leg to stand on, even if he had attacked the fan who threw the cup. If anyone in the stands was injured, their attacker (probably Jackson or Artest) could be found guilty of aggrivated battery and/or possibly assault and battery - both of which are almost always felony charges.

I’m sure that once the fan who threw the cup is identified, he will be charged with battery, and will likely be fined, banned from attending any future NBA games, and barred from entering the Detroit arena.

Artest will probably at most be charged with criminal battery, and be fined. He, along with Jackson, the NBA, the Pacers, and the Pistons, will most definitely be sued in civil court, and some combiination of those parties will have to pay thru the nose. It looks like Artest and Jackson will keep their jobs, though, which would be very unlikely in almost any other industry.

Posted on November 22, 2004 12:14 PM | #

54. Kyle said:

Bob,ok, so they might see if a bit differently, but, again, they’re BOTH in the wrong.

Keith makes a great point. By singling out Artest you send a pretty shaky message to people. But, then again, they might not be done…

Posted on November 22, 2004 12:24 PM | #

56. Keith said:

Bob – are you talking to Kyle maybe?

I think the fan should be charged with something, and yeah, I’d place the blame on him for starting the “riot” for sure. If you want to trace it back it could maybe go back to Wallace, but most of that was in the context of the game itself.

Bottom line – the FAN crossed the line first. Wallace was the first person to act out of line – twice. This is why I feel Artest shouldn’t take all the blame. He was provoked three times before he reacted. Doesn’t make it right, but there you have it….

Posted on November 22, 2004 01:12 PM | #

58. Ray said:

I’m sick of people not wanting to take responsibility for their own actions.

Bingo

Fans and players alike.

Posted on November 22, 2004 01:22 PM | #

60. beerzie boy said:

> It’s not the NBA’s player responsibility to raise our kids!!!!

Not to harp on this, but…No one is asking the NBA or anyone else to raise our kids. What we are asking for, in a business that markets itself to youth and rather happily takes their (our) money and doles it out to its spoiled owners and participants, is to conduct themselves professionally.

This of course goes ‘way beyond the obvious problem of fighting and attacking each other or fans. It means setting a high standard for sportmanship and on-court behavior so that future professionals behave appropriately. Children take their behavior from what they see around them; not just at home, but everywhere. Is that a lot to expect? I think not.

As for the Fan v.s. Player Blame Game, naturally, tossing things on a playing field is so far over the line it is not even funny. The doofus who got punched got what he deserved, as did the players who were punished. What I can’t understand is how this got so out of hand. Where were the security people? How does a guy toss a beer on the court and not get his ass tossed within ten seconds, let alone be given the time to waltz out on to the court? And let’s face it – many of the red-faced drunks at courtside make as much money as a lot of players. This isn’t an income-level class issue, it is a lack of class issue. Money or stardom don’t make you a saint or a sinner.

Posted on November 22, 2004 01:53 PM | #

62. Keith said:

Ray – we’re pretty much in violent agreement.

Beerzy – Yeah, no one is asking them too, and in general I agree with you.

When something goes wrong with their kids, guess where the finger often gets pointed. At the media, at role models at anyone but the people who are most responsible for the education of those kids…we see this all the time.

That is why I worry. By placing the blame on someone like Artest, you’ve created a scapegoat when really a number of people should take respsonibility.

You can’t expect society to raise your kids and the only way to combat this kind of stuff is with good, attentive parenting.

Coming from the guy with no kids! ;)

I will agree that Artest “should” (and I put should in quotes because it’s not my place to tell him what to do) have acted better, BUT, this guy isn’t a good role model and he hasn’t been. He’s a thug.

The whole idea that all professional athletes should hold themselves to this moral standard is naive, unrealistic and silly. Like I said before, if my kid had Ron Artest as a role model, at any time is his career before now, we’d have a talk. These guy to much worse than all that quite often and it’s in the news, etc.

I think many people are looking at this from a very idealistic point of view. In reality:

Artest doesn’t and never has given a crap about being a role model. Artest is a thug. That fan was an idiot who knew exactly what kind of trouble he was getting into. Most of those other fans are drunken idiots. It wasn’t anything like what would happen in a “real” job. Artest didn’t cause it to escalate as far as it did, the fans did, other players did. Artest didn’t start it, Ben Wallace did. None of them should be left out of the blame. Artest was assessed most of the blame because it was EASY.

Posted on November 22, 2004 06:10 PM | #