IE7
February 15, 2005 | 
31 Comments
Yeah, I heard the news that Microsoft is going to move forward with Internet Explorer 7.
My initial reaction? Wow, that’s pretty cool, maybe we can move this whole Web thing a bit farther forward! But then, on a long walk back to the office from where my car is getting its flat wheel mended, I formed another reaction: big f’n whup!
I honestly can’t see how, even if they fix the bugs and decide to have improved CSS support, this will make a huge difference in how Web professionals work now. Browser support takes a long time. OS support even longer. I don’t think releasing IE will get us out of having to support IE 6 any time soon. So, while it could be pretty cool—I’m not sure it’ll matter for quite awhile, if ever.
What’s worse is if it’s not done right, it could cause even more of a headache if adoption is significant. So, I’m not sure if I want it to succeed or fail miserably. Guess it depends on how it’s done, eh?
I guess all I’m saying is; don’t abandon your CSS hacks just yet.
Filed under: News
Comments
1. Beerzie Boy said:
I hear Yugo is releasing a new line of cars, too.
Posted on February 15, 2005 03:21 PM | #
2. Garrett said:
Keith, you’re right in the fact that it won’t have an immediate impact. But if the impact is 5 years away from the release date. I’d rather it be 5 years from this year, rather than 5 years form the release of Longhorn. =)
I think what interests me more is the fact that Microsoft could seriously be considering Firefox a threat. It’s interesting if this is a reaction to that. Competition is good.
Posted on February 15, 2005 03:37 PM | #
3. Keith said:
Garrett – That’s true.
I do wonder if Firefox had much to do with this or not? From Gates’ comments it seemed to really be more of a perception with their security than anything else.
Posted on February 15, 2005 03:43 PM | #
4. Garrett said:
Even if it’s indirect. One of the biggest selling points of Firefox for everybody who isn’t a web developer is security.
So even if it’s indirect, the fact that there is a “more secure” alternative is the threat they would most likely be scared of. You know, as opposed to the highly marketable and sexy “standards compliance” aspect that Firefox is using to get ahead. =)
Posted on February 15, 2005 03:52 PM | #
5. Alistair said:
To be honest, I think it is going to be more of a bad thing than a good thing. Known fact that IE is a hodge podge of code on the inside. I don’t forsee Microsoft dropping their entire development/code base from IE6 to start work on IE7; at which point you are going to be left with a marginallly improved product.
Whats probably going to be more frustrating about the whole endevour, is that they’ll fix some things but not all. Which means we won’t be able to supply hacks to make certain things work/not work in different (read: dodgy) versions of IE.
The outcome, either we take a hard line not to support IE until it is fixed or you’d be left with browser detection to feed different styles to different browsers (which is always going to end in tears in my opinion).
Al.
Posted on February 15, 2005 04:08 PM | #
6. Sunny said:
I actually like the commitment of Dean Hachamovitch. Strong words these.
As far as web developers are concerned, just wait and see. Try out the betas and help out with pointing bugs. But keep expectations low because obviously its a security release not a feature release (only at Microsoft security is not a standard feature).
Posted on February 15, 2005 04:36 PM | #
7. Kevin Tamura said:
I’d say it’s got a bit to do with Firefox, before FF started getting all the press (Wired cover story amongst others) Redmond was more than happy to have a faulty browser. If security really was the chief concern they would have had a team up and running the minute the first problems arose. Another part of me wonders if this is just some window dressing for the new Gates Manifesto of interoperability.
Posted on February 15, 2005 04:41 PM | #
8. Ray said:
(Wouldn’t it be nice if Firefox was the default browser with all MS installs. In fact wouldn’t it be even nicer if the Moz group was the development team for the MS browser, which in fact would be MS Firefox. And wouldn’t it be even nicer still if the Firefox team were left to do what they do best and they didn’t get any input from MS HO.)
*POP*
But then again, WTF do I know.
Posted on February 15, 2005 04:45 PM | #
9. Scott said:
Thanks again, Keith, for making me second guess myself! ;D Just when I thought things were brightening up in the web browser world, I’ve read countless blogs that predict it will just bring more problems along with it…
Posted on February 15, 2005 07:07 PM | #
10. Doug said:
Hmmmm…..”interoperability”… sounds like something Standards would be useful for….
Posted on February 15, 2005 11:18 PM | #
11. Marwen said:
I have mixed feelings about this too.
I’m hoping it will bring IE closer to standards, solve security issues and maybe spice up the browser with some nice new features so that the rest of the world can catch up with us people using Firefox.
But, I’m also worried about it moving in the opposite direction and making our lives more complicated in developing web sites and applications.
Posted on February 16, 2005 02:02 AM | #
12. Quique said:
Well, you tell me!
We still have to cope with different versions of the pages and css to check the client ‘needs’: Netscape 4.5, Explorer 5.5 .. and most recently, Opera, Safari, FireFox and Explorer 6. With the addition of yet another (dodgy!) version, this will surely be a mess!!
Please tell us, the web development community, the good old IE is turning standard!! P L E A S E !!!
Posted on February 16, 2005 02:33 AM | #
13. vivhost said:
Since using Firefox for a while now, I’m beginning to hope Microsoft browser might finally be put out of its misery. A version of Windoze with no browser, no media player and no email client could sell cheaper, install faster and function more securely for a vast majority of people, myself included.
Posted on February 16, 2005 04:43 AM | #
14. Chris Hunt said:
Well, they can’t win, can they? We’ve all been moaning for years about how Micro$oft haven’t released any new versions of IE. Now they announce that they’re finally going to do so and people moan about the extra work it’s going to cause them.
There’s a new IE coming. It should be better than the old version, but like all browsers it’ll have bugs and quirks that we have to deal with. Let’s just hope it’ll be worth the wait.
Posted on February 16, 2005 05:33 AM | #
15. Adam Thody said:
Personally, I’d be happy if they just focused their energy on standards. I’ve seen lots of blogs, and forums talking about tabbed browsing, new forms of security, new plugins, etc, etc…just make the thing work as well as the competition and I’ll be happy.
It’s a sad state when the majority of Internet users use the most inferior browser…hopefully that will change soon and we won’t have to worry about IE and its “It’s my party and I’ll cry if I want to” attitude.
Cheers
Posted on February 16, 2005 05:43 AM | #
16. Bob said:
Chris Hunt beat me to the punch with my comment.
Posted on February 16, 2005 06:32 AM | #
17. Nathan Logan said:
Dean Hachamovitch’s comments, as linked above, included these:
Ugh. I have a feeling that means that all PC users will HAVE to upgrade to XP in order to use IE 7. If that’s the case, this new browser may not be a “Hey, Microsoft heard you. We’re committing (to improving our browser).”, as reported by Dean Hachamovitch, but rather a ‘Hey, Microsoft is not impressed with those of you who haven’t upgraded to our latest and greatest operating system. We’re turning our backs to you until you fork over the cash.’
And I’m a Windows user.
Posted on February 16, 2005 07:43 AM | #
18. Cody Lindley said:
Let�€™s be clear. At a certain point in the past I did moan and groan for a new release of IE 6. However, that time has come and gone. I’m plain insulted by Microsoft�€™s arrogant handling of their browser dominance. They missed the window of opportunity. And because they did the announcement is meet with fear and disappointment. In my opinion IE 7 will likely cause more damage then good for both developer and user.
Posted on February 16, 2005 09:31 AM | #
19. Dave P said:
While I’m trying to look at this with a positive outlook, the more I hear from the IE team, the more disapointed I get.
I would be very surprised if IE7 was any more that IE6 with tabbed browsing, anti-spyware and maybe one or two CSS fixes.
This would be the worst senario, and will be a disaster for us, the developers, since we’ll now have another MS product to code hacks around.
I’m not holding my breath.
Posted on February 16, 2005 09:32 AM | #
20. Bob said:
The design and development community could always revolt… just serve IE[anything] a plain, unstyled site (with “upgrade to Firefox” messages thrown in…) and develop wholeheartedly for compliant browsers. That’d teach’em.
(OK – so it’s fun to daydream sometimes…)
Posted on February 16, 2005 10:11 AM | #
21. seth said:
Sorta like my response :)
Posted on February 16, 2005 10:56 AM | #
22. CM Harrington said:
I think the worst case scenario is that IE 7 breaks all the “hide from” hacks, but doesn’t actually offer non-broken CSS support.
I shudder to think
Posted on February 16, 2005 11:13 AM | #
23. Nathan Logan said:
CM, by “worst case”, do you mean, “most likely”?
;)
Posted on February 16, 2005 12:35 PM | #
24. Mike said:
If we’re lucky, maybe they’ll start from the ground-up with this release and abandon the old mess that is IE6 all together.
I, however, find this as likely as Cannabis being legalized by the Bush Administration…
Posted on February 16, 2005 03:28 PM | #
25. David Tapper said:
I just hope that there will be an effective CSS filter for IE7.
Would it be insanse to propose that all browsers (IE in particular) build in deliberate filters to filter them in or out of any CSS. I think it is more likely that this would be supported that that CSS would be consistant across platforms!
Posted on February 17, 2005 12:08 AM | #
26. Jason Beaird said:
I think that IE7 ignoring the filter hacks and still not correctly rendering the css is my biggest fear. I’m guessing that we’re not going to get PNG Support, or better support for layers (so that dropdown boxes don’t render over EVERYTHING) either…but I’m still tryin to keep my head up.
Posted on February 17, 2005 09:09 AM | #
27. Gabe said:
One thing that concerns me after following IEBlog is that they never directly address the standards issue. It’s all about their security initiative or what features their ‘customers’ want. I suspect this is a deliberate strategy from on high. There’s no dominance in open standards, so Microsoft is doing it’s damndest to suck developers into it’s proprietary features (XAML, etc).
Well I say it’s time to fight back. From now on I’m not expending extra energy to make my sites pretty in IE. I’ll do the minimum to make them accessible, but advanced features (particuarly Javascript-based stuff) may not work. Or I may even go so far as to reimplement the old ‘upgrade your browser’ campaign, although with a slightly different angle.
More importantly, I want to push the envelope of Firefox’s standards support, and create sites that really make the Mozilla engine stand out. Heck, maybe I’ll even do a little work on the Mozilla CSS 3 engine.
Remember, Microsoft NEEDS us developers. Every time we add bells and whistles for Firefox we are taking value from IE and adding it to Mozilla. There’s no need to do anything drastic like breaking things in IE on purpose. It’s just a subtle shift towards pushing the standards envelope.
Posted on February 18, 2005 07:05 AM | #
28. Edgard said:
When Microsoft finally release IE7, hype around the new browser’s security, will make IE7 one of the most downloaded ones. The reason is that people have been gradually educated to download security fixes, and this browser has been tagged and it’s being marketed as the greatest security fix for IE.
Firefox success are also tied to security.
Microsoft will exploit the security concerns for its own benefit.
Posted on February 19, 2005 10:31 AM | #
29. Evelyn said:
I would never buy a Yugo!! That’s like the Ford Pinto coming back.
Posted on February 21, 2005 01:35 PM | #
30. Festivus said:
With all this talk of IE7 and Firefox I am surprised that Opera isn’t included more in this discussion . I used IE (like everyone) for years and then I moved up to Firebird/Firefox and now to the latest beta version of Opera after using several of the previous builds . I think Opera is a fast , coherent , and customizable browser , with alot of really great features . It does most everything very well , and common sense oozes from every feature and nuance . I am not however , too sure of the security implications or any vulnerabilities of this particular kernel . With hackers , exploiters , and money-hungry pricks gradually shifting some attention to the ever-growing popularity of Firefox , how long will Opera have before it is bombarded with evil? And how will it handle such threats as is? Any thoughts?
Posted on February 23, 2005 11:52 PM | #
31. Jough said:
The only dangerous “fixes” will be if they fix the bug that allows for IE/Win filters but don’t fix the box model bugs that those filters were set to fix.
It’s never been a good idea to use the behaviour of one bug to attempt to fix another, but somehow I foresee this happening. If so, IE7 may force designers to abandon hacks and simpify designs by necessity.
Firefox has a reputation for being more secure than IE, but recent press releases have shown that it isn’t - the Mozilla org is just less vocal about their security bugs than Microsoft is. And since they don’t offer patches, they’re slower to fix the bugs (the fixes in Moz 1.0.1 for Windows still aren’t fixed for other OSes).
I really like Firefox, and I evangelise it on my sites, and its CSS support is great, but any software that loads code from a remote site is going to be 100% secure, especially if it’s open source.
When Mozilla.org starts releasing prompt patches and doesn’t try to hide its flaws it’ll be a more stable platform.
Of course, IE is unusable due to its known and as-yet-unfixed security flaws. So what’s left? Opera?
Posted on March 2, 2005 11:36 AM | #
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